Rose Garden and Washington happenings in “new normal” times

lord_pabulum said:

A timeline actually, though you might call it a reflexive list

 it's a copy and pasted timeline, not a discussion.  And it doesn't (by definition), refer to the important things that were NOT done.  which is really the point.


What wasn't done? Enlighten me. I've only read a lot of hindsight commentary. 


ml1 said:

lord_pabulum said:

A timeline actually, though you might call it a reflexive list

 it's a copy and pasted timeline, not a discussion.  And it doesn't (by definition), refer to the important things that were NOT done.  which is really the point.

 NOT DONE:  identity of patient zero and gene sequence of virus infecting patient zero.

Why:  so that epidemiologists can see if the virus has mutated.

If so, what manner of mutation(s) (if any).

Benefit:  health authorities can better understand the virus and our defenses against COVID-19.


RealityForAll said:

 NOT DONE:  identity of patient zero and gene sequence of virus infecting patient zero.

Why:  so that epidemiologists can see if the virus has mutated.

If so, what manner of mutation(s) (if any).

Benefit:  health authorities can better understand the virus and our defenses against COVID-19.

If you look up information about Covid-19 gene sequencing, you'll find information about it being done. 


nohero said:

RealityForAll said:

 NOT DONE:  identity of patient zero and gene sequence of virus infecting patient zero.

Why:  so that epidemiologists can see if the virus has mutated.

If so, what manner of mutation(s) (if any).

Benefit:  health authorities can better understand the virus and our defenses against COVID-19.

If you look up information about Covid-19 gene sequencing, you'll find information about it being done. 

 Gene sequencing yes (patient unknown).

Gene sequencing for patient zero:  NO.


ml1 - I'm interested in a link to the playbook.  Google wasn't any help.


lord_pabulum said:

ml1 - I'm interested in a link to the playbook.  Google wasn't any help.

 the link I posted includes the entire 69 page NSC document


RealityForAll said:

 Gene sequencing yes (patient unknown).

Gene sequencing for patient zero:  NO.

 "Patient zero" where?

And why does this matter at this time?

[Edited to add] And the sequencing has been done for more than one patient, and the studies identify where and when each such patient was encountered and tested.


Mtierney -I am sorry for the sadnesses that have occurred today for you and your family. There will be brighter days for all of us.


lord_pabulum said:

Here is an article on the coronavirus genome sequencing I posted on March 13th.

 And the article says, "Scientists in China sequenced the virus’s genome and made it available on Jan. 10, just a month after the Dec. 8 report of the first case of pneumonia from an unknown virus in Wuhan."


nohero said:

lord_pabulum said:

Here is an article on the coronavirus genome sequencing I posted on March 13th.

 And the article says, "Scientists in China sequenced the virus’s genome and made it available on Jan. 10, just a month after the Dec. 8 report of the first case of pneumonia from an unknown virus in Wuhan."

 My understanding is that the sequencing was NOT for patient zero.  Why is the rest of the world NOT being provided with the identity of patient zero and the gen sequencing for the virus found in patient zero.


Relevant because we need to know how this virus has developed and possibly mutated over time.


Yes nohero,  and...


lord_pabulum said:

Yes nohero,  and...  

 The date seemed to be a useful fact.  Especially given -

RealityForAll said:

nohero said:

lord_pabulum said:

Here is an article on the coronavirus genome sequencing I posted on March 13th.

 And the article says, "Scientists in China sequenced the virus’s genome and made it available on Jan. 10, just a month after the Dec. 8 report of the first case of pneumonia from an unknown virus in Wuhan."

 My understanding is that the sequencing was NOT for patient zero.  Why is the rest of the world NOT being provided with the identity of patient zero and the gen sequencing for the virus found in patient zero.

Relevant because we need to know how this virus has developed and possibly mutated over time.

 You've got back to January 10.

What makes you think that anyone knows who the first person to contract it was?


nohero said:

lord_pabulum said:

Yes nohero,  and...  

 The date seemed to be a useful fact.  Especially given -

RealityForAll said:

nohero said:

lord_pabulum said:

Here is an article on the coronavirus genome sequencing I posted on March 13th.

 And the article says, "Scientists in China sequenced the virus’s genome and made it available on Jan. 10, just a month after the Dec. 8 report of the first case of pneumonia from an unknown virus in Wuhan."

 My understanding is that the sequencing was NOT for patient zero.  Why is the rest of the world NOT being provided with the identity of patient zero and the gen sequencing for the virus found in patient zero.

Relevant because we need to know how this virus has developed and possibly mutated over time.

 You've got back to January 10.

What makes you think that anyone knows who the first person to contract it was?

 What makes you think that no one knows who the first person to contract it was?


nohero said:

Deleted - nohero comment for RFA


RealityForAll said:

nohero said:

RealityForAll said:

Why is the rest of the world NOT being provided with the identity of patient zero and the gen sequencing for the virus found in patient zero.

Relevant because we need to know how this virus has developed and possibly mutated over time.

 You've got back to January 10.

What makes you think that anyone knows who the first person to contract it was?

 What makes you think that no one knows who the first person to contract it was?

You brought it up, so I asked what makes you think they know.  I'll take it you don't have an answer. 


lord_pabulum said:

nohero said:

 You've got back to January 10.

What makes you think that anyone knows who the first person to contract it was?

 I don't.  What is your point?

 I was responding to and asking "realityforall".  


Just noticed and deleted


lord_pabulum said:

Just noticed and deleted

Don't worry nohero, I just un-deleted your post again


Two articles on "patient zero" for Sars and for COVID-19.  Clearly, finding patient zero is standard operating procedure (after the SARS epidemic).  See first article.  From the second article, it appears that the first COVID-19 infection occurred on or before December 1, 2019.  Yet Chinese press and CCP continue to claim the date is instead December 31, 2019.  IOW, China/CCP appears to be intentionally holding back information about COVID-19's patient zero.

================================================

Headline:  'Patient zero' believed he did not have Sars, inquiry told SCMP
Mary Ann and Mary Ann Benitez
Published: 12:00am, 14 Dec, 2003

Link1: https://www.scmp.com/article/438097/patient-zero-believed-he-did-not-have-sars-inquiry-told

Brief Excerpt from Link1:   A Guangdong professor at the centre of the global spread of Sars told Hong Kong doctors in February he was not suffering from the atypical pneumonia that was making hundreds of people sick in southern China at the time, a Legco hearing heard yesterday.
On the first day of the select committee inquiry on the handling of the Sars outbreak that killed 299 people in Hong Kong, Kwong Wah Hospital doctors and nurses were asked to account for the management of so-called 'patient zero', Liu Jianlun.

Liu infected at least 13 tourists staying at the Metropole Hotel in Mongkok. Globally, the outbreak eventually claimed the lives of 774 of the 8,098 who fell ill.  Yesterday's five-hour hearing did not produce any controversy, as was widely anticipated. Instead, hospital staff were praised for their handling of Liu's case.
Liu, a kidney specialist, arrived in Hong Kong on February 21 to attend a wedding banquet, staying overnight at the Metropole. The next day he sought treatment at Kwong Wah's accident and emergency department for fever, shortness of breath and palpitations.

Resident doctor Chow Kin-wa said Liu told him he had been suffering from fever and shortness of breath for the previous four days on the mainland. He had recently had pneumonia, which he self-treated with antibiotics.  Wu Chun-wah, a consultant who reassessed the mainland professor, said: '[Liu] added that he had already recovered and was not suffering 'that kind of thing'.

=============================================

Headline:  Who is 'patient zero' in the coronavirus outbreak?

Fernando Duarte
23rd February 2020

Link2:  https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200221-coronavirus-the-harmful-hunt-for-covid-19s-patient-zero

Brief Excerpt from Link2:  

Chinese authorities and experts are at odds about the origin of the ongoing coronavirus outbreak. More specifically, who is "patient zero" for the outbreak. Also known as an index case, patient zero is a term used to describe the first human infected by a viral or bacterial disease in an outbreak.

Advances in genetic analysis now make it possible to trace back the lineage of a virus through those it has infected. Combined with epidemiological studies, scientists can pinpoint individuals who may have been the first people to start spreading the disease and so trigger the outbreak.

Identifying who these people are can help address crucial questions about how, when and why it started. These can then help to prevent more people from getting infected now or in future outbreaks.

Do we know who patient zero is in the Covid-19 coronavirus outbreak that started in China?  The short answer is – no.

Chinese authorities originally reported that the first coronavirus case was on 31 December and many of the first cases of the pneumonia-like infection were immediately connected to a seafood and animal market in Wuhan, in the Hubei province [emphasis added].



This region is the epicentre of the outbreak, with almost 82% of the 75,000-plus cases registered so far in China and globally are from here, according to statistics complied by Johns Hopkins University. The Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market was been linked to early cases of coronavirus and was quickly closed by the authorities (Credit: Getty Images)  However, a study, by Chinese researchers published in the Lancet medical journal, claimed the first person to be diagnosed with Covid-19, was on 1 December 2019 (a lot of earlier) and that person had "no contact" with the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market [emphasis added].

Wu Wenjuan, a senior doctor at Wuhan's Jinyintan Hospital and one of the authors of the study, told the BBC Chinese Service that the patient was an elderly man who suffered from Alzheimer's disease.  "He (the patient) lived four or five buses from the seafood market, and because he was sick he basically didn't go out,” Wu Wenjuan said.

She also said that three other people developed symptoms in the following days – two of whom had no exposure to Huanan either.  Researchers also found that 27 people of a sample of 41 patients admitted to hospital in the early stages of the outbreak had been exposed to the market However, the researchers also found that 27 people of a sample of 41 patients admitted to hospital in the early stages of the outbreak "had been exposed to the market".

The hypothesis that the outbreak started at the market and could have been transmitted from a living animal to a human host before spreading human-to-human is still considered the most likely, according to the World Health Organization (WHO).


That's a good article to read in light of your questions.


No matter what, the filthy disease ridden live markets need to be terminated.


RealityForAll said:

Two articles on "patient zero" for Sars and for COVID-19.  Clearly, finding patient zero is standard operating procedure (after the SARS epidemic).  See first article.  From the second article, it appears that the first COVID-19 infection occurred on or before December 1, 2019.  Yet Chinese press and CCP continue to claim the date is instead December 31, 2019.  IOW, China/CCP appears to be intentionally holding back information about COVID-19's patient zero.

If the options are:

  1. CCP has blood on their hands because they kept the start of the Corona virus outbreak under wraps and therefore denied others the chance to save lives by being better prepared.
  2. DJT has blood on his hands because he initially denied the crisis and therefore denied others to save lives by being better prepared

Then my response is: they are probably both true, why would one think this is either-or?



I wonder what happens to a Trump supporter's mind when they read those tweets? How do they slot that into the "he's a great man" part of their brain?



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