Who colluded more: Hillary or Trump?

paulsurovell

So we have a NYT "bombshell" story that Donald Jr. met with a Russian lawyer who provided no information.

On the other hand, we have stories that

(a) Hillary supporters paid for dirt on Trump from alleged Russian officials and

(b) the Ukrainian government provided dirt on Trump to Hillary's campaign.

Who colluded more?


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BG9

I read stories that there are trolls paid by Russia and/or the Trump campaign to get on web sites to muddy the water.


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dave23


paulsurovell said:

So we have a NYT "bombshell" story that Donald Jr. met with a Russian lawyer who provided no information.

On the other hand, we have stories that

(a) Hillary supporters paid for dirt on Trump from alleged Russian officials and

(b) the Ukrainian government provided dirt on Trump to Hillary's campaign.

Who colluded more?

a) Oppo research is very common. What's unusual is to seek out foreign nationals for such research. 

b) Glad to see you finally accepting the value of anonymous sources. This was a good sentence from the linked article. "Russia’s effort was personally directed by Russian President Vladimir Putin, involved the country’s military and foreign intelligence services..."

Nothing you post suggests collusion by Hillary's campaign. 

Do you have any suggestions as to why Trump's campaign has repeatedly denied and then changed their stories about meeting with Russians? Why would they say such meetings never took place if they were no big deal?



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Dennis

Get over it Paul...Bernie lost, fair and square. Hillary may not have been perfect, but I bet that a significant number of Trump voters (perhaps even you) wish they hadn't done it. Grow up, grow a pair, and deal with the realities of Trump. Our world depends on it.


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South

The right answer is "Trump".


I don't know why this is even a question.


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LOST

If Hillary colluded at all she should be impeached.


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cramer

Whataboutism is a propaganda technique formerly used by the Soviet Union in its dealings with the Western world, and subsequently used as a form of propaganda in post-Soviet Russia.[1][2][3] When criticisms were levelled at the Soviet Union, the Soviet response would be "What about..." followed by an event in the Western world.[4][5][6] It is a case of tu quoque(appeal to hypocrisy), a formal fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument.[7][8][9] 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...


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drummerboy

what an odd thread.


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yahooyahoo

Trump = president

Hillary = not president

The question is irrelevant.


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author


Dennis_Seelbach said:

Get over it Paul...Bernie lost, fair and square. Hillary may not have been perfect, but I bet that a significant number of Trump voters (perhaps even you) wish they hadn't done it. Grow up, grow a pair, and deal with the realities of Trump. Our world depends on it.

If Bernie lost fair and square why was the head of the DNC made to resign........just before the Dem convention no less

Bernie beat Trump in may polls............feel the Burn















Like  
author


Dennis_Seelbach said:

Get over it Paul...Bernie lost, fair and square. Hillary may not have been perfect, but I bet that a significant number of Trump voters (perhaps even you) wish they hadn't done it. Grow up, grow a pair, and deal with the realities of Trump. Our world depends on it.

If Bernie lost fair and square why was the head of the DNC made to resign........just before the Dem convention no less

Bernie beat Trump in may polls............feel the Burn















LOST said:

If Hillary colluded at all she should be impeached.



LOST said:

If Hillary colluded at all she should be impeached.

You might say she was


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paulsurovell


yahooyahoo said:

Trump = president

Hillary = not president

The question is irrelevant.

Trump and Hillary were both candidates when (a) the meeting with the Russian lawyer took place and (b) when Hillary supporters paid for oppo research from alleged Russian govt officials and (c) when the Ukrainian govt provided info to Hillary's campaign.


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Ridley

The takeaway I have from this thread is this:

Don't collude more.

Collude better.


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dave23

Yes, we've moved from "no collusion" to "everyone's doing it," especially in light of Donny Jr releasing the incriminating emails.


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Joseph

Supposedly, he wanted to beat NYT to the punch in releasing them.


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Joseph


ridski said:

The takeaway I have from this thread is this:

Don't collude more.

Collude better.

My takeaway: some people can't stomach HRC's existence.


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jeffl

I only care about what's bad for Trump and his family.  I'm totally biased and proud of it.  If it embarrasses Trump and, more to the point, leads to his impeachment or the imprisonment of his family members, I'm for it!  And you can add Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell to my definition of his family members.



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nakaille

Paul, is there any way that you can re-direct your fury away from Hillary and the Democratic Party and work toward building an alternative to Trumpism?  You have so much energy and cognitive power that could be spent building a more sustainable future.


Like  1 Like
wendy


nakaille said:

Paul, is there any way that you can re-direct your fury away from Hillary and the Democratic Party and work toward building an alternative to Trumpism?  You have so much energy and cognitive power that could be spent building a more sustainable future.

 snake 


Like  
ml1

I'm glad I followed those links. There really wasn't a lot of there there.

dave23 said:



paulsurovell said:

So we have a NYT "bombshell" story that Donald Jr. met with a Russian lawyer who provided no information.

On the other hand, we have stories that

(a) Hillary supporters paid for dirt on Trump from alleged Russian officials and

(b) the Ukrainian government provided dirt on Trump to Hillary's campaign.

Who colluded more?

a) Oppo research is very common. What's unusual is to seek out foreign nationals for such research. 

b) Glad to see you finally accepting the value of anonymous sources. This was a good sentence from the linked article. "Russia’s effort was personally directed by Russian President Vladimir Putin, involved the country’s military and foreign intelligence services..."

Nothing you post suggests collusion by Hillary's campaign. 

Do you have any suggestions as to why Trump's campaign has repeatedly denied and then changed their stories about meeting with Russians? Why would they say such meetings never took place if they were no big deal?



Like  
South
wendy said:

nakaille said:

Paul, is there any way that you can re-direct your fury away from Hillary and the Democratic Party and work toward building an alternative to Trumpism?  You have so much energy and cognitive power that could be spent building a more sustainable future.
 snake 

Double.   snake  snake 


Like  
Mike


paulsurovell said:

So we have a NYT "bombshell" story that Donald Jr. met with a Russian lawyer who provided no information.

On the other hand, we have stories that

(a) Hillary supporters paid for dirt on Trump from alleged Russian officials and

(b) the Ukrainian government provided dirt on Trump to Hillary's campaign.

Who colluded more?

Why does it matter who colluded more?


Like  
Ridley

Donald Trump Jr. Emails Paint Serious Case of Campaign Finance Violations

http://electionlawblog.org/?p=...


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South

Only a die-hard Trump supporter would have started a thread like this.

There.  I said it.  


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Dennis


nakaille said:

Paul, is there any way that you can re-direct your fury away from Hillary and the Democratic Party and work toward building an alternative to Trumpism?  You have so much energy and cognitive power that could be spent building a more sustainable future.

A futile effort IMHO.  He's gone 'round the bend long ago.


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paulsurovell
nakaille said:

Paul, is there any way that you can re-direct your fury away from Hillary and the Democratic Party and work toward building an alternative to Trumpism?  You have so much energy and cognitive power that could be spent building a more sustainable future.

My "fury" is directed at a knee-jerk, mindless, evidence-free mantra that makes people feel good but pushes us closer to Nuclear War

I hope you and others here will support our upcoming initiative that will call for a major effort to combat climate change -- presented as a jobs program -- funded by a shift of resources from the military budget (starting with the proposed obscene increase of $54 billion) to provide massive subsidies for wind, solar, ocean and geothermal power.


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nakaille

I have no trouble supporting that kind of initiative, Paul, and I honestly wish you would spend more time educating us and helping us direct our energies in this sort of "resource shift."   My not so wild guess is that many others here feel similarly and are happy to learn of ways we can help steer such a shift.


Like  
Sally


nakaille said:

I have no trouble supporting that kind of initiative, Paul, and I honestly wish you would spend more time educating us and helping us direct our energies in this sort of "resource shift."   My not so wild guess is that many others here feel similarly and are happy to learn of ways we can help steer such a shift.

+1


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South

When you've been "Hannitized" you start threads like this.


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RobB

colludamatta?

I'm still working out the details. 


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